Concern Worldwide UK
About Danny Harvey
Danny Harvey has more than 20 years' experience in the humanitarian aid and development sector, working with a number of organisations, including Concern. She has lived and worked in a number of countries including Cambodia, East Timor, Uganda and Indonesia. Danny joins the UK office as Executive Director from Zambia, where she was Concern’s Country Director.
Danny is committed to tackling the inequality that goes hand-in-hand with poverty and is passionate about working alongside people living in the poorest and hardest-to-reach communities so that together we can build a better, more secure and prosperous future.
Executive Director of Concern Worldwide UK, Danny Harvey, joins Alberto Lidji to discuss their strategic thinking, ambitions for the future and how management has coped with COVID-19.
The following is a transcript of the conversation:
[00:05] - Alberto Lidji
Hello and welcome to The Do One Better! Podcast in philanthropy, sustainability and Social Entrepreneurship. I'm Alberto Lidji, your host from London. Please subscribe to the show. Please share widely with others. It makes a huge difference indeed. Today, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome on to the show Danny Harvey, who is the executive director of Concern Worldwide here in the U.K. We're going to be looking at the organization and the work they do.
They tackle hunger, poverty. They work in 25 countries. And we are going to be focusing a little bit on the management side as well. So they recently had their what I would call sort of team strategy conference. But I understand the more appropriate name might be an "Ambition Session". They gathered the whole team in the U.K. and they did a lot of brainstorming and thinking strategically about what the ambitions should be and what they should be doing. So that's going to be the topic for today.
We're going to go for about 30 minutes and please enjoy the show. Danny, welcome onto The Do One Better! Podcast.
[01:10] - Danny Harvey
Thank you very much. It's a real pleasure to be here.
[01:13] - Alberto Lidji
Well, it's a real pleasure to have you on the show. Why don't we start by finding out a little bit about Concern Worldwide?
[01:22] - Danny Harvey
Yes. So Concern Worldwide is an Irish organization. We started in Ireland in response to the Biafra famine in 1968, and we've grown from there. So we now have offices in the U.K., in the US, South Korea, and we're in 23 countries, most of which I guess you describe as fragile, conflict affected.
So we're an organization that has a really clear mission to contribute to the elimination of extreme poverty. And we're very focused on that. So that dictates, if you like, where we work, both the countries, but also within countries where we're placed, where we do our work and of course, who we work with. So we would say as a sort of guide, the benefits should accrue to the extremely poor. And that's a bit of a mouthful.
But what it means is that where we see change happen, we want to see change happen in the lives of the poorest and most vulnerable people in that place. And I guess that affects a lot of what we do. So most of our programming is around models, which we think work particularly well with groups, these groups of people -- with extremely poor people. And for example, we do graduation, which I know probably your listeners have heard about before from other organizations.
We spend a lot of time thinking about it and working on it. It's a very straightforward idea, which is basically around -- extremely poor people are often in a position where there their daily income, they need to work every day in order to put food on the table, and you're trapped very much in this cycle of very chronic poverty. You're very vulnerable to risk. And so graduation gives people a predictable income. So they get a cash transfer for a certain amount of time. It can be 18 months. It can be a bit longer in some places. Within that, you get some support.
So you get some training or support from a coach to to think of a small idea that suits you, that suits the market, we'll do a bit of market research with you and you will develop that idea into a small business. And every week your coach calls in on you. And that's a really key part of it, because I think when you are in that position, it's really difficult to hold fast when you're not used to having a regular income It's quite difficult to focus on keeping your business going and not get just pulled in all sorts of different directions.
And then towards the end, we do another kind of boost, like it might be something you need for your business, like a pump if you're doing a vegetable garden, or it might be just cash as a like a capital investment. And it works mostly.
So, you know, by the end of around two years, most people will have, in effect, graduated. And that means that they're in a position where they have a more predictable income and they have the opportunity that that's going to be sustained and increased. And moreover, they will feel more confident. And that's one of the exciting pieces about having a coach and having the opportunity is often the thing that quite transformative and people feel much more able to make a change in their lives.
So that's the sort of development side. And then we're dual mandate. So we also have a commitment to humanitarian response. And that runs through everything. So we would obviously respond to a major disaster wherever it is, if we think we can add value and reduce suffering and save lives. So we would respond globally, but within our countries, then we also plan for response. So even in a country like Zambia, which is the last place I was working with Concerne before I came to the UK, where people would say nothing much happens, we would have a plan, we would monitor very carefully the meteorology.
So you're looking for indications that maybe you're going to have problems with rainfall or flooding or something will happen that will affect people's livelihoods. And you have a sort of back up plan which says, okay, so this is what staff would do, this is where we could hire more vehicles, this is where we would source whatever you need. So we're ready always to have that sort of response and protect people's livelihoods as much as possible.
[05:55] - Alberto Lidji
Excellent. Sounds like you have your hands full.
[05:59] - Danny Harvey
Yeah, but it's very satisfying. I mean, in that you can have a very comprehensive way of looking at things, because increasingly, I think in the places where we're working, you know, development is not linear.
It's caught up in cycles. People are extremely vulnerable to natural disaster. They're affected by conflict. They have often very weak local systems. So you might not have access to good services. You might not have any services. Services might be under-resourced.
So when you start thinking about how things progress, that's not a linear progression. So to be very flexible around the programming is really important.
[06:45] - Alberto Lidji
Yeah, and tell me so you used to be the country director of Concern Worldwide in Zambia. Now you're you're heading Concern Worldwide here in the UK. Is there much difference between what I gather would probably be a sort of delivery operation in the global south and possibly here in the UK you're more focused perhaps on the income generation?
[07:06] - Danny Harvey
Yeah. So in terms of what I what I cover is really quite different. So in Zambia, we would have been doing programming and responding to emergencies in a country context. You know, one of my colleagues laughs the other day because I do quite a long -- did before I was stuck at home -- quite a long commute into work. And they said, of course, you don't think about that, because I would normally have done, you know, an eight or nine hour drive just to go.
So it is different. What is surprisingly similar is the degree of commitment and passion and professionalism that you encounter within Concern wherever you are.
And I also hope that I can bring a little bit of that knowledge and understanding to the team here, because everybody here is really motivated and works really hard. But it is... The the work, if you like, that we're raising funds for or doing advocacy, you know, for is remote and I think that's really important to be able to have a sense of really what's going on.
[08:16] - Alberto Lidji
And so as an organization, the two key things that I highlight here are tackling hunger and extreme poverty. Tell me a little bit about your strategic focus as a global organization right now. And then I'd love to delve into this ambition session or strategy conference that you guys had recently and we can drill into these little bits and pieces and give the audience a really good insight into your thinking.
[08:42] - Danny Harvey
Yeah, and so we're coming out to the end of a strategic planning cycle. So we have I mean, but the themes I think will continue really strongly. So we focus almost exclusively in fragile conflict affected states. And actually we've narrowed that focus progressively over recent years and then obviously humanitarian response. So we would be in places like Syria and Lebanon working with refugees and IDPs. So our focus globally is around tackling hunger and looking at nutrition within that as well. It's on conflict. So building conflict sensitivity in but also working in places that are affected by conflict. And it's now going to be increasingly on climate change. So those would be our global focus. Within the U.K. then, we are a subsidiary. So we we support with fundraising. We do a lot of work around policy campaigns, raising awareness, trying to create an understanding of what's needed, what works, where investments might best pay off, sort of bringing together learning and understanding.
So we had over the last couple of months, a couple of days where we looked to our ambition as the U.K. office. I'm new, there's a couple of other senior managers...
[10:08] - Alberto Lidji
So how long have you been running the U.K.?
[10:12] - Danny Harvey
Since the middle of November.
[10:13] - Alberto Lidji
OK, so fairly new and a very tempestuous six months...
[10:17] - Danny Harvey
You know, when I arrived, I thought, well, you know, Brexit would be a challenge.
[10:23] - Alberto Lidji
Little did you know...
[10:24] - Danny Harvey
I like a challenge. Little did I know that we would be involved in this. So we ... yeah. So in the UK, we thought, OK, so in terms of contributing to this, this broad piece of work globally, where do we fit in?
What can we do? So we convened an ambition session. We were a little nervous. I was very nervous.
[10:46] - Alberto Lidji
How did it come about? What did you guys do? Is it part of your normal strategic planning every year to have an ambition session or was this a new endeavor?
[10:55] - Danny Harvey
It was a new endeavor, and I think it was to do with the fact that I was new. The global strategic planning process, had gone quiet for a couple of months while we coped with the covid. And so we thought, OK, it's time to start that again. And we wanted to work out our contribution. I mean, we will then do strategic planning later in the year. But this was really like a piece of forward thinking. And I was super nervous because I am not a virtual person.
Normally I like a flip chart and to see people and to be in proximity to people when you're doing this kind of thinking. But we convened virtually and it was really amazing. So the first question we asked was, and what have we learned? What have we learned from the experience of the covid-19 pandemic that we want to take forward? And it has been a really tough time for people.
It's been tough for everybody, I think, and for people, the team of super constructive and thoughtful. I mean, there was a lot of nice thinking about how we've come together as a team. There was a lot of thinking about the flattening effect. So certainly between now -- we have office in London and Belfast. The virtual move to virtual had flattened us out. You know, the way we were. There was no sort of London has a meeting in Belfast joints.
Everything's much flatter. But what was really exciting about that discussion was this idea of greater connectivity. So not just between us, but also into country programs and into actually the work and what was going on.
We've had much more deliberate internal communications during the pandemic and we've seen, you know, the office in the UK can be much more strongly connected to the work wherever it happens to be. And we think that's really exciting and something that we really want to push going forward and be and the opportunities and to be much more inclusive and diverse. Really exciting. So that was one really big thing that came out, and the other thing that we sort of thought about was we're trying to look outwards and we obviously we want to think how how can we have as much impact as possible?
But in the light of an economic downturn, which I think is inevitable, at least in the UK and globally, probably so we were thinking of increasing impact.
And we there was a huge amount of enthusiasm for looking at partnerships. So we've already started a piece of work to look at shared value partnerships. And I know this is getting quite common in the sector, but the idea that a partnership with private sector can help address, you know, tough development challenges. So whether that's a more sustainable supply chain or whether it's something around better behavior change communication, whether it's something around the problems we face everywhere that farmers face, everywhere around food preservation, what are these kinds of challenges where a private sector partner might also gain value?
So we were, we started talking about that. We're really interested in that. But we also got quite excited thinking about the potential for partnerships in terms of like minded organizations here in the UK, talking on themes of hunger and nutrition. These aren't exclusively international development concerns.
And also this idea of, well, what do we know that we can't do? So where can you find partnership? Where you can you know, you can bring skills or different ways of thinking into the organization without necessarily having to have everything yourself. And because we're relatively smaller in the UK, we're only 60 people here. You know, I think that gives us the flexibility to look at some of these things and try them out.
So that for me, was really exciting that out of a period of a real challenge and if we talk about how we're responding to the pandemic overseas, that is a real challenge. But that we were still able to think creatively and think forward.
[15:11] - Alberto Lidji
Did you get the 60 folks, the 60 people into the zoom conference at once, though?
[15:16] - Danny Harvey
No. We did two sessions, we did a first trial. OK, I was only brave enough to do 15 breakout rooms. And then we went to everybody else.
[15:27] - Alberto Lidji
And the sessions they lasted, how long? So the full on session?
[15:32] - Danny Harvey
So we did the first one was a whole day but really split up. I don't think these things work for more than a couple of hours at a time. And then the second one, we just did a morning. So it's like a four hour session split into breakout rooms and a kind of plenary. I mean, you have to work plenary a bit differently. I think it's hard to get people to speak otherwise.
[15:55] - Alberto Lidji
How did you get, um, I was going to, that's exactly the question I was going to ask is how do you get folks to actually speak up? Because a lot of the times, even if you're face to face and sitting right next to each other, it's difficult to get somebody to raise their hand or to jump in. Now, eventually, things warm up a little bit and people start, you know, and then you've got to sort of shut down the floodgates, right.
Because everybody wants to say something. But initially, it's a little bit difficult. How are the dynamics running a strategy conference?
[16:25] - Danny Harvey
So I have to not take credit for all of this. We had an external facilitator first, and some of these are her great ideas. But the the first one was the plenary one.
So for sharing the ideas, it was you share and nominate and the next person. So actually nobody's interrupting anyone else and you get everybody to speak. And then, you know, the great thing about it is with these shorter, broken sessions, you can consolidate and present back to people towards later in the day. Yeah. And and then the same as I think other people are doing questions in chat or, you know, once you get over a certain number of people, you can't see the hands go up.
[17:06] - Alberto Lidji
Yeah, exactly right. There's no ads going up at all. I guess you can just see the red button or something, but.
[17:12] - Danny Harvey
But the breakout rooms are fantastic.
So a group of five, six people with somebody facilitating and maybe someone taking notes, you can have great conversations in there.
And we did cross teams, which is also really, really productive, I think.
[17:28] - Alberto Lidji
Which are the main teams that you have in the organization?
[17:31] - Danny Harvey
So we would have a team that work on fundraising, communications, international programme support. And so that's what our institutional funding in the UK. And I'm really scared now. I'm going to leave someone out...
[17:45] - Alberto Lidji
That's alright, will stick them in later.
[17:48] - Danny Harvey
...Policy and campaign. So that's the sort of advocacy -- getting supporters behind actions and trying to talk about the things that we think are important externally. Yeah, and then the finance and ops side...
[18:03] - Alberto Lidji
Vital. Don't forget the finance and ops!
[18:04] - Danny Harvey
...Yeah, and I would be in so much trouble, but, um, yeah, I think one of the things we found is with the so the move to remote, you know, everyone's been through the same thing the first couple of months.
You're super... You're checking in with people all the time to change meetings. There's lots of, you know, how is everyone adjusting and coping? Yeah, and that's worked very well.
The downside is you get quite vertical again. And actually, this part of the UK ambition sessions and a couple of other things we've organized around flexible working is to try and get that cross team interaction again, because that would normally happen more organically in an environment where you see each other and so you have to kind of curate. It's not the right word, but you have to kind of encourage that to happen and get that sort of cross-fertilization.
[19:03] - Alberto Lidji
Now, you're the executive director. You're running the show here in the UK. You determine what the show is going to look like in 2021. Let's say that there's a vaccine that comes online and does away with covid-19 overnight. How are your operations here in the UK... Organizationally speaking, how would they differ, having now all this experience of virtual working, virtual strategy conferences, all of these learnings that you've just highlighted... Is the new normal for for your organization, the different?
[19:45] - Danny Harvey
We've started the discussion. So we've already had some focus groups with staff about flexible and remote working and what that might look like when we eventually can have a normal.
- Alberto Lidji
I imagine that's a lively conversation.
[20:00] - Danny Harvey
Surprisingly, you know, we will end up, I'm sure, in the medium term with a kind of hybrid, I think is hard to say.
You know, it's hard to say how you feel about something because this isn't remote and flexible working. This is, you know, lockdown in your home. Most people in Concerne felt, at least in the discussions we had, they would like to be with other people for part time.
So, you know, I think we will end up with a sort of hybrid, but with a much greater degree of flexibility in terms of, you know, when people work, when they have to come into the office and people managing their output, if you like, rather than that, you know, rather than just managing their time by it, by making sure everyone's present all the time in an office environment, it's really exciting. And then the other thing is this change around internal communications, much more deliberate, much more sharing, and then much more expensive.
So not within just our team here, but across the organization. And that's really exciting, I think, to be much more joined up in that way.
[21:08] - Alberto Lidji
Yeah, absolutely. One of the things I know people miss and I hear this a lot of the times from from folks like you is that there's just no way of going up to somebody's desk and saying, can I borrow you for five minutes?
You can't just pull somebody aside and have a chit chat about something.
You know, everything's about scheduling a Zoom conference at three o'clock on a Thursday afternoon or and that spontaneity where a lot of the really creative juices flow sort of sometimes is lacking in our current and day to day reality.
[21:41] - Danny Harvey
Yeah, and we've had that feedback. I mean, people have found ways around it through the little apps, you know, in Skype for business or Microsoft teams as well, or using WhatsApp for the chit chat. And I am now much more likely to pick up the phone or say, if you got two minutes, I just need to get this and we just do it virtually. Right. But I also think that we had a great input from one of our trustees when we were talking about this who works with an entirely remote team.
And, you know, he was telling us that in those cases, you curate those interactions on a regular basis. So you do you have to put those in...
[22:23] - Alberto Lidji
And your board meetings are happening remotely as well. If you've had one already yet. Maybe that's a cue for next board meeting, post pandemic, you know, still doing remotely and do away with all the hassle of the logistics of the whole board.
[22:37] - Danny Harvey
There's a there's a compromise I think between some and some. Everybody likes to see people. That's the kind of organization we are anyway.
[22:45] - Alberto Lidji
So there is -- not to plug this episode -- but I had Bruce Daisley on the show a while back, who used to head up Twitter here in Europe, and he's very much about this office culture and work life balance and remote working and various other things. And one of the things he pointed out is that even if you do everything remotely, you still crave that human interaction. Face-To-Face. There are certain things that we being the way we are, we want to see people we want to engage with.
And maybe that's not nine to five, five days a week. But certainly I don't think most people would be happy with remote working 100 percent. That would probably be a very lonely existence.
[23:22] - Danny Harvey
Yeah, but is exactly that change of attitude, which is I do not need to be in the office to answer my emails. You know, you can be there much more deliberately for these moments where you can be creative or have deep discussions or but actually you don't have to do that massive commute for certain bits of your work. Sure.
[23:43] - Alberto Lidji
And then how did you get into all of this? How did you end up being the executive director in the U.K.? I know you came from from being the country director in Zambia, but how did you get into this whole field and tell us a little bit about your career trajectory?
[23:57] - Danny Harvey
I guess I started with with an interest in conservation.
I did a masters in Tropical Agriculture and Environmental Resource Management, which is quite a mouthful, but it is what it says and started with Concern, in fact, as a volunteer in 1998 in Cambodia. So I was working around agriculture and natural resource management projects and I very quickly realized that obviously people are key. That's why I wanted to work in development. Thinking around conservation and the interaction of people with the environment is key.
But I gradually I guess started to get more and more involved in gender, I mean, I think very quickly, you realize that agriculture isn't as much talking about seeds and planting spacing and the sort of technical side of it is the human side of it, and that women do nearly all the work in agriculture, but yet they don't get to choose what they plant. They don't get to sell and keep the profits. When the agricultural extension worker comes, at least in those days, it was nearly always a he and he would nearly always talk to the men.
And yet women, they're responsible for putting food on the table or for getting the kids to school and paying additional school fees.
So you start to see this disconnect between the idea of the development work and actually looking at gender and inequality more broadly.
So I guess I started to get more involved in the gender side of programs and sort of progressed from Cambodia I moved to Timor Leste, where I was for about five years as the country director, again with Concern, which was an amazing time. They had just got their independence from the Indonesian occupation.
And it was a very empowered people living in very difficult circumstances, actually. So that was an amazing time to learn and to be there. And then I moved to Indonesia for the post tsunami response. And then I took a turn and did something completely different. So I moved back to Concern I had left at that point and took on the role of equality advisor, which wasn't anything to do with agricultural management anymore, but was about that sense of trying to...
I think at the time we needed to be in a position where I was basically explaining to people and working with people to understand why gender is important, why we need to do analysis in the programs, why we need to find ways to promote greater gender equality, whether you're looking at, I don't know, wash and boreholes or agriculture or social protection.
I mean, there's a gender dimension to everything. And so I worked on equality for about five years and towards the end of that was involved with a group of people developing this idea. We call it How Concern Understands Extreme Poverty.
It's an approach to analysis that tries to get a better program design like something that's more effective is more comprehensive, really tries to tackle root causes.
So we looked at this idea, you know, very poor people have very few assets. You may not have land, you may not have tools. You may not have power. You may not have the equipment you need for your business. You may not have health. You may not have labor. So houses where you've got a female, but a woman, a widow with five kids, she's the only person who can work.
And they they are the manifestations of poverty. So this is how people are.
However, there's two things that sort of prevent people moving out of poverty. Even if you've addressed the asset issue, one is risk. So often people living in a context are in an environment where a natural disaster, a flood, a drought, ill health, conflict, displacement affects them profoundly. And no matter how many assets you may have to start with, that will push that back down again.
And the other side is inequality. So it could be gender. It could be caste. It could be your economic position relative to others. It could be an ability or disability. So there's many reasons why people are not able to actually access or benefit from development opportunities. So, you know, something comes to a village or a community. You can't be represented because of your gender. This is a huge disadvantage.
So we developed this analytical framework and then I spent a while doing pieces of work in different countries to try and put it into practice and see if we try to do a thorough analysis with local teams and local partners and with people. If we could design actually better programs. And that then is our, I mean, I was part of the team that did it. But that then is our approach. It's been refined a lot and we have a lot more of a focus on conflict around that sort of risk.
But that was what I did for a while, and then I moved to Uganda and spent some time there and then as country director in Zambia, which was my last position, and that was amazing.
[29:51] - Alberto Lidji
And now you're here. You must be incredibly bored here then?
[29:57] - Danny Harvey
Well, it's been a really amazing journey. Like I've worked with such incredible people. And I hope that what I bring is a little bit of that experience. So it's been it's been a privilege, actually, to have so much insight into so much of what we do. And I hope a little bit doing things like this and sort of talking to people, it brings a little bit of that insight into what we're doing.
[30:26] - Alberto Lidji
So tell me a little bit about success for the next 10 years. What are you hoping to achieve? What would that look like? And that dovetails perfectly with the UN Sustainable Development Goals for 2030.
[30:39] - Danny Harvey
Yeah, it's a really strange time to look at them. So I guess we weren't doing very well before. So hunger, we know, has been increasing in terms of numbers of people. But the estimates now with the covid-19 pandemic are that hunger will increase massively and poverty will increase for the first time in around 20 years, which is just tragic. So we were struggling a bit with the SDGs and now I think we've got to work even harder to to achieve something with them...
[31:12] - Alberto Lidji
Are you feeling optimistic about them?
[31:14] - Danny Harvey
I'm very optimistic person. I don't know if that's not a good thing, but I would always tend towards optimism. I mean, I really think there's a kind of three bits that I think we could really make some progress. And the first is this idea of build back better and not losing some of the things that we've learned as a result of the covid-19 response. And really, we don't really talk about climate change at the moment, not because we don't care, but because we've been so involved with responding to the pandemic.
But I think that's got to come back. And I think the whole way that we're working and the potential to reduce carbon footprint, you know, that's got to be really considered. And we need to start talking about, you know, the mitigation and adaptation again. So that's an important piece to me. You know, still as the optimist, I think the the progress we could make around sustainable diets, sustainable food systems, reducing hunger and giving people access to enough nutritious food so that people can thrive and reach their full potential.
I don't think that is out of our reach, but it is really about a concerted effort to change that. I mean, that's the focus very much of what we do in Concern. But, you know, obviously that's a global effort to do that.
And then gender and inequality, of course, you know, is close to my heart. And we we're seeing some good progress and some of the global movements, the MeeToo and and Black Lives Matter, this intense push, hopefully to a much more equal society is really positive.
I think the agenda -- there is a lot to do across many aspects. I think part of it still is about transforming the institutions of power where power sits so that they're more inclusive. It's easier for women to be there. It's easier for other underrepresented groups to be there.
And it's around sort of behaviours, it's around numbers as well. I think, you know, through direct experience and also from a lot of the work we've done around gender, it does help when there is a critical mass. It is hard when you are the only woman to really stand up and occupy your space in a very male environment. And that's the same across the board. So I think there is that real push at that level that needs to happen both within our institutions as NGOs, but also in the much more in the much bigger institutions globally.
So I'm hopeful with the gender inequality, with the Goal Five. But it takes an effort.
[34:06] - Alberto Lidji
It does. It does. What's the key takeaway you'd love for the audience to keep in mind after they finish listening to today's episode?
[34:13] - Danny Harvey
Yeah, I guess it was a little bit back to effort, actually. So, I mean, when the SDGs came in that piece around leaving no one behind and increasingly now we talk about putting the first last was what made them for me so exciting. It's something that the MDGs didn't have and wasn't in the MDG targets. So it was easy to see progress, but actually, you could then have a whole chunk of people who were unaffected by that progress.
So that's what we've been focusing on for years. And and I think I guess the takeaway is to say that that is really tough.
And I've talked about it a little bit earlier about the fact that progress isn't linear, you know, in terms of supporting these activities, whether you're an institutional donor or through philanthropy or an institution, you need to be flexible. You need to think in long timeframes. You need to build in. I mean, increasingly, we're looking at things like contingency funds and adaptive management. So you have the ability to say, well, this is happening. Let's do a cash transfer to protect livelihoods now.
And that will mean that you don't sort of get a setback for everything that you've gained. So I think the idea of a flexible, long time frames, non-linear programming is really important. But I think that's quite difficult for people to grasp because everybody likes an innovation that, you know, you find it very quickly and something very quick happens. And I actually don't think that's the kind of things that need to happen. So that, I guess, is the takeaway. It's not straightforward, but it's really worth it in the end.
[35:58] - Alberto Lidji
Excellent. Danny Harvey, executive director of Concern Worldwide in the U.K., thank you so much for joining us on The Do One Better! Podcast.
[36:07] - Danny Harvey
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me on.